12. Get used to saying 'I want to be paid for this'

and don't be crap

Hi hi!

I took a wee break from Sound Money. No real reason, just fancied some time away from the newsletter, which is great, but definitely time-consuming. What did I do with the extra time I hear you say? Watched episodes of The Bold Type (would recommend, a bit annoying at first but actually pretty good) and thought about my life. Anyways, really chuffed about this one. This person is one of my favourite people to follow on Twitter, they are genuinely hilarious in an incredibly dry and sardonic way, so I was very glad when they agreed to be interviewed for Sound Money.

They started off their career in audio as a BBC production trainee, moved on to work at indies and are now living that freelancer audio producer life. They’ve learnt a lot along the way as you’ll see, so for those fledging audio whizzes this is a good one to read – hopefully you’ll find their advice useful.

If you want to get better acquainted with this newsletter, read the first ever post here. And if you want to contribute to this newsletter please get in touch at oparaandwade@gmail.com.

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How did you get into audio?

I got a BBC production traineeship years and years ago, off the back of nothing more than my enthusiasm for radio – I had no industry experience. I don't think that could happen now because there are so many more opportunities for building your own experience, it would be slightly weird to hire someone who hadn't been involved in any online radio or podcasts. I think in today’s world that demonstrates a relative lack of interest and determination. 

What’s it like working for an indie vs the BBC?

I think the BBC is brilliant for new people because it can take risks, because it's massive and there's a support structure in place (you can let a 21-year-old produce something knowing that there's an exec and a Broadcast Assistant on hand to stop them making basic errors). The BBC is also brilliant for massive names – it's slightly in thrall to them so they can do whatever they like.

Indies are better for the people between those places – you've proved you can do the job and are ready to be allowed to get on with it and get paid better.

How much money do you make on average per annum? 

I make about £40k. Since going freelance the worst year I had was £27k, and the best was £50k. 

The thing about the bad year is that it followed a very busy year where I was basically too busy to pitch, meaning work ran out. As there's always a gap between agreeing to do stuff and getting paid for it, you need to strike that balance between making stuff and pitching for stuff to keep the flow of cash steady. Also, last year was really bad from a cash point of view so try not to live through a global pandemic if you can help it.

How do you feel about the money you earn?

It’s fine; I’m not motivated by money (otherwise I wouldn’t be in audio). I suspect I could be on much better money if I went into the management side, but that doesn’t really interest me. I think there has probably been a trade-off between the income I make and the fun I have… but I don't know. The median income in the UK is about £25k and I've not earned less than that since my early twenties, so I can't feel sorry for myself.

What have been your best and worst money-related experiences in audio so far?

The worst was when I had to explain to an indie that they hadn’t paid me money they owed me and, and if they didn't pay me immediately, I literally couldn’t afford the train ticket up to meet them for a production meeting the next day.

I’m not sure what my best experience would be; maybe getting a short-term development deal? That seems quite a rare thing to have got and it gave me the time and space to develop some ideas properly, rather than trying to develop them and then get paid from them.

Working at the BBC makes you quite bad at talking about money because there are people who do that for you. We're also socialised to not talk about money because it's vulgar. But honestly, I got the development deal by talking to different production companies about the bare bones of my ideas and then saying, ‘I don't know who to pitch through, what will you offer me?’ You obviously need a track record of success to pull that off, and it helps that I was pitching on more than one show, so the cost wasn't all going into one basket. But get used to saying, ‘I want to be paid for this’ in a businesslike, no-nonsense way because that's honestly the only way you can get paid sometimes (and if they were going to pay you, they won't take offence at you bringing that up first). 

What changes would you like to see in the audio industry?

I think a lot of the problems with audio stem from the finances; we all know what the budgets are, and so we know what companies can afford to pay Producers / Assistant Producers / Broadcast Assistants – hence the standard producer £250/day rate. So although I'd love commissioners to put more money into development, that would mean less money for programmes; and I'd love companies to pay for development, but that would be carved out of production budgets. There are some super-rich commissioners out there who really ought to be paying better than they are for development and pilots though.

I'd hoped that the influx of podcasting cash would help, but we seem to have gone for a throw-lots-of-money-at-celebrities model when a give-interesting-creators-small-but-useful-amounts-of-money would be more profitable in the long run.

I also think we need to appreciate how production takes longer in lockdown, I don't think that's being properly dealt with. If you're recording audio from multiple locations, rather than having everyone around a table, the editing takes twice as long, but days aren't getting added to production schedules to cover that. I've loved making stuff in lockdown but juggling the technical side of things has been a grind.

What would you say to someone trying to get into the industry now?

1. Get as much experience in audio or related fields as you can (want to produce music? Work in a club. Want to produce speech? Work on a podcast). It doesn't have to be an all-consuming thing, but having two or three things like that on your CV will really help recruiters get a sense of who you are and what you can do. 

2. Once you're in, be patient, but persistent. Pitch ideas constantly; they won't all be good and they definitely won't all get used, but radio eats up ideas so people who have more are more valuable. I don't expect to be a CEO in eighteen months.

3. Be as generous as you can; it's better to be known as someone who helps other people/colleagues/rivals than it is to hawkishly protect your own interests. Say nice things about their work when you like it – that's not what's going to stop you getting commissioned over them.

4. Get to know as many people as you can. Yes, networking is shit, but think of it more like talking about something you love with other people who also love that thing. You won't get on with everyone, but try to find the people you do get on with, even if they don't work in your specific area.

5. Take risks. There's loads of work out there for people who are good, so if you find yourself not getting the opportunities you deserve, look around for other companies who might. This will feel terrifying at first, but the companies that hire good people like you* will do better than the companies that treat you poorly enough for you to walk out on, so it'll work out in the end.

Are there any other comments you'd like to make?

I think people need to take long-term views of the industry. From the employee point of view, that means you'll need to spend a bit of time at each level you work at – which is fine, because none of us is going to be able to retire before we're 75, so there's no rush to become an exec by the age of 30 or whatever.

From the employer point of view that means not going for short-term easy hits, but thinking about what will grow and expand audio listenership, because if any group feels excluded from what we're doing they'll create their own spaces and eventually we'll become irrelevant. And from the commissioner point of view, it's about being willing to expand the range of voices and develop them rather than just hire already-big names to keep your RAJARs up.

*ignore this advice if you’re terrible.

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Thanks to our contributor this week.